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So let's have a healthcare debate...

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  • So let's have a healthcare debate...

    One thing that I really loved in Obama's DNC speech was the reference to values and the need to reestablish a sense of shared values and a common purpose. I personally think this is the underlying cause of a lot of issues in the country. We've lost any sense of responsibility for the less fortunate, and if you lose your house, your job, your insurance, etc. - it's your problem. I've seen several posts here stating as much, and it just makes me cringe.

    So SELF magazine recently had an interesting article, about women who were denied insurance. One of the women (a healthy 32-yr old mother of two) was denied coverage b/c of her "history of infertility" and the fact that she took Metformin and Actos. Another woman (a 40-yr old widow with 2 boys) had emergency surgery for a growth on her fallopian tube. Four months after her surgery, her insurance company completed a 'routine review' of her records and discovered a pre-existing gyn condition...This condition was a ONE-TIME notation in her file of irregular periods. Even though she supposedly had coverage, she was suddenly responsible for $15k from the emergency surgery (and is still paying it off, 7 yrs later).

    The article had a quick breakdown of the candidates' policies:

    OBAMA:
    - maintains it's the fed govts responsibility to make sure every American has access to insurance
    - would require all insurance cos to offer a basic set of benefits to everybody at affordable rates, regardless of the applicant's medical condition
    - under his plan, insurers couldn't charge sick people more, nor could they turn people away

    MCCAIN:
    - wants to offer a tax credit to people for whom insurance is too expensive, worth $2,500 (families would receive $5,000)
    - says its up to states, w/ the help of the fed govt, to devise programs for people insurers won't touch b/c of past or present conditions
    - suggests more states might run programs such as the high-risk pools now in 34 states (covers 200,000 people today)

    Giving the focus of this website, I thought these examples were interesting. Anyone here taken IF drugs? Had irregular periods? What if you had emergency surgery and then were denied coverage? Several of the women in the article still haven't been able to get coverage at all. I look at the McCain plan and I see nothing that would ensure these women get help. These are not poor women, or unemployed women. They are women like us who are victims of an appalling insurance system. Under Obama's plan, they would get some relief, mainly b/c insurance companies would have to change their behaviors. It ain't a handout! What good is a tax credit going to do if an insurance co won't cover you? What if you live in a state that lags behind in developing a plan? Are the insurance companies going change on their own, b/c they care about us?

    This is where I am absolutely stumped when people say either choice is a good one for this country. These men believe fundamentally different things. Do you believe everyone should have access to health care coverage or not? I agree that Obama's plan would cost a lot (while McCains is widely expected to have virtually no impact on the number of insured). But even if *I* have to pay more, I'd rather live in country where people's basic health needs are covered, where insurance companies can't take away benefits or deny coverage to women who are just like me.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ybab
    MCCAIN:
    - wants to offer a tax credit to people for whom insurance is too expensive, worth $2,500 (families would receive $5,000)
    I understand that everyone with employer provided coverage will be eligible for this credit. The gotchya is that McCain wants to tax the value of the premiums that employers pay towards your medical coverage.

    In our case our taxable income will increase by 10K to cover the value of the employer paid premiums.

    This is a tax increase for many taxpayers and I don't know why Obama isn't highlighting this in his ads and with every response to every question about taxes.

    Comment


    • #3
      McCain's plan is actually a tax plan. The average cost of medical insurance is about $12 a year. So if you make $50,000 a year, your tax base would then become $62,000 a year. So I don't understand how he can say he isnt going to raise taxes.

      This is going to hurt working middle class the most I think. Families who may not make a lot of money (Teachers, other public servants) but who have great health benefits. And of course the obvious is that this won't do anything for anyone who doesnt have health insurance.

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      • #4
        The importance of addressing healthcare costs

        This might be a side note to the debate, but for all the conservatives who are happy with the healthcare system as it is, remember that it is the rising costs of healthcare premiums that is driving up our school and municipal costs, thus raising our local taxes. Lowering healthcare premiums overall will go a long way to addressing budget shortfalls in our schools and towns.

        Affordable healthcare will also loosen the noose on small businesses who can't afford to provide coverage for their employees. Affordable healthcare will allow people to pursue part-time or work-at-home employment without worrying about losing benefits.

        Affordable healthcare is good for the health of our economy.

        McCain's plan does not address the high cost of healthcare. He offers a $5,000 tax credit while taxing, yes taxing, workers for the amount of the premium that their employer pays for them. The thought behind this plan is that many employers will drop their healthcare benefits, sending their employees to purchase individual plans. The expectation is that the competition for private insurance will prompt insurance companies to lower their premiums, but more likely they will lower premiums for young, healthy people and hike them for at-risk populations. More people lose under McCain's plan.

        It stinks that health insurance is tied to employment, but at the same time, when I was 22, just out of college and feeling invincible, I don't think I would have gone out and bought myself a health insurance plan when I was only making $15K a year. When it's a benefit, you're more apt to sign up for it. (Or if it's mandatory, like Hillary's plan.)

        Sorry for my ramblings.
        Danielle

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd like to hear

          someone defend McCain's plan. Why do you think it's better? What do you like about it? I'm trying to debate about the issues here. Help me out .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dani
            This might be a side note to the debate, but for all the conservatives who are happy with the healthcare system as it is, remember that it is the rising costs of healthcare premiums that is driving up our school and municipal costs, thus raising our local taxes. Lowering healthcare premiums overall will go a long way to addressing budget shortfalls in our schools and towns.

            Affordable healthcare will also loosen the noose on small businesses who can't afford to provide coverage for their employees. Affordable healthcare will allow people to pursue part-time or work-at-home employment without worrying about losing benefits.

            Affordable healthcare is good for the health of our economy.

            McCain's plan does not address the high cost of healthcare. He offers a $5,000 tax credit while taxing, yes taxing, workers for the amount of the premium that their employer pays for them. The thought behind this plan is that many employers will drop their healthcare benefits, sending their employees to purchase individual plans. The expectation is that the competition for private insurance will prompt insurance companies to lower their premiums, but more likely they will lower premiums for young, healthy people and hike them for at-risk populations. More people lose under McCain's plan.

            It stinks that health insurance is tied to employment, but at the same time, when I was 22, just out of college and feeling invincible, I don't think I would have gone out and bought myself a health insurance plan when I was only making $15K a year. When it's a benefit, you're more apt to sign up for it. (Or if it's mandatory, like Hillary's plan.)

            Sorry for my ramblings.
            Danielle
            Interesting points - I hadn't thought about that! I know it's true in our life, we've made employment choices based on insurance coverage. Heck, one of the reasons we moved to Mass was the guaranteed IF coverage....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dani
              This might be a side note to the debate, but for all the conservatives who are happy with the healthcare system as it is, remember that it is the rising costs of healthcare premiums that is driving up our school and municipal costs, thus raising our local taxes. Lowering healthcare premiums overall will go a long way to addressing budget shortfalls in our schools and towns.
              Danielle
              This is an EXCELLENT point! Here in NJ, the cost of health insurance for teachers and municipal workers is *killing* our local budgets. It's one of the biggest pieces of the pie, and the one that goes up the most each year. I hadn't even thought of that angle... all the more reason for healthcare reform (as if there wasn't enough reason already).

              Comment


              • #8
                Part of the problem with the high cost of insurance for teachers and other unions is the high level coverage that is expected. Our teachers expect full coverage for prescriptions, tooth whitening, lasik surgery and even near full coverage for braces.

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                • #9
                  I think teachers need to have something (a fabulous health care package) because they certainly aren't going to get rich teaching. Teaching can be a thankless job and having wonderful benefits could keep good teachers teaching.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MyRocky
                    I think teachers need to have something (a fabulous health care package) because they certainly aren't going to get rich teaching. Teaching can be a thankless job and having wonderful benefits could keep good teachers teaching.
                    Honestly, teachers don't have it so bad... at least not here in NJ. I have my certification and my MA, and if I left my job and started teaching right now, I'd be making more money and have much better benefits. I know it's not that way everywhere, but our teachers are pretty well paid!

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                    • #11
                      As they should be!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MyRocky
                        As they should be!
                        Agreed. But something has got to be done about the insurance situation. It's just way, way too expensive for the taxpayers to be able to afford anymore, especially considering many taxpayers can't even afford their own health insurance. Reform is needed!

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