stimulation day 5 of 1st IVF

[natailia3]

I am here!
Hello ladies, glad to hear everyone is doing fine.
I have been laying low after my last ultrasound and trying not to stress over everything. So I have not been checking up on the board but have been thinking of you all. Always good to hear good news. Looks good for you both.

My most heartbreaking even happened Friday when I lost my dog fo 14 years. Its was huge loss for me and its hit me hard. My husband worried the stress wasn't good for the pregnancy but you got to grieve.

Been feeling really good these past 10 days or so and settle into the idea that my body may not actually be toxic. After seeing a heartbeat and "feeling" pregnant, I was settling into the idea that this was going to happen.
BUT, I am afraid that tonight I had another ultrasound and the doctor just said that it was not living anymore.
She didn't try to get a heartbeat but said it had not grown from my last ultrasound.
To recap my misadventures with the pregnancy:
First ultrasound at local clinic at 6 weeks 3 days (2 sacs one empty one not viable)
Second ultrasound at clinic 6 hours (2 sacs one empty one right on track with heartbeat)
Today third at 9 weeks 4 days (one sac, embryo has not grown)

So my family wants me to drive to the other clinic which I will.
I am traveling next week for 2 weeks so I hate the thought of miscarrying while on vacation. Its a very emotional thing. I am confused, frustrated, angry, exhausted and just plain numb at this point.

I told my husband that I just don't feel surprised when it happens. Its just a matter of when for me now.
I lost 3 natural pregnancies last year and now have documented 3 of the 3 embryos transfered implanted but none survived. So I guess there is something wrong but I am at the point that I want to stop trying.

After each loss I really felt that I was suffering but that there was this big reward waiting for me, a successful pregnancy. I don't feel like that anymore.
I feel doomed.

I will transfer the 3 frozen ones mainly because you cannot destroy embryos here in Brazil. You can donate them to people or science or keep them frozen. Or I guess put them in my toxic body so I won't have to make a decision about what to do with them.

I do have a beautiful daughter so I am a lucky woman. Who knows, maybe it will work out one day but I am really close to letting go. I just cannot do this anymore.

You have all be so wonderful to talk with and to have women who are going through similar things and understand the pains of infertility. It has been the best therapy for me. Especially since I am living abroad. Its a lonely pain. The kind thats so intimate that not many people know you are going through it.

Anyway, I will continue to check up on you all. I want to see your updates and follow your success all the way to your births!

Hugs to you all. And to all the lurkers who have wadded through this thread that has been going on now for what 10 weeks?

[Carlaliz]

Oh, Natailia..... I'm so very sorry to hear this. And I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone right now b/c your experience is almost exactly what happened to us last cycle - down to our dog dying. It was one of the worst times of our lives and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I'm soooooo very sorry that you're experiencing it now.

With us, I pretty much had a full-fledged period about 4 weeks after our cycle and the doctors, my husband, and I all thought it was over. When I went in for bloodwork to be sure that my hormones were back to zero, they found that they weren't. A week later, they were up more, so they did an ultrasound and found a sac and a heartbeat. It was small, but it was there and the doctor said he was "cautiously optimistic." They also speculated that 2 had taken and the bleeding was my loosing the one. We were on cloud 9 and couldn't believe that what we thought was our second IVF loss was actually working! We went in weekly for ultrasounds and, while still small, there was some growth. When we went in for our 9 week, the heartbeat had stopped. I could tell right away and it was one of the worst feelings ever. This happened the day before Thanksgiving. I was off work for those days and opted to let my body miscarry naturally, but it didn't. After a week of waiting, I had a D&E. It was terrible, only made worse by the holidays when you're supposed to be festive. We were trying to rally, when we noticed that our dog (only 5 years old) wasn't feeling well. He was a rescue and had come from a very neglectful/abusive environment. We had been helping him through various health problems as a result of his previous neglect/abuse for the 2 years that we'd had him. We took him to the vet the day after Christmas and were told we had to put him down b/c his kidneys had quit working. He was "my boy" - my big, protective, teddy bear, who gave the best hugs ever, and I was devestated.

I'm telling you all of this b/c I think it's soooooo crazy how similar our experiences are. But mainly b/c I hope it helps you feel better, on some level, to know that you're not alone and that I completely understand how awful you feel and how difficult the next few months will be. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy and I can't tell you enough how sorry I am that you're going through this. I can't imagine how much harder it must be to be going through it in another country - far away from the support of family and friends. However, I also know that you're gonna make it through this and be an even stronger person. We went to grief counseling as a couple and that did a lot to help. I don't know if that's an option for you since you live abroad, but maybe you can find some kind of support group or something. I know that my husband and I started wondering what we had done that was so awful that we deserved to go through all these losses - 2 pregnancies and now our puppy. Plus, the two failed IVF attempts (not to mention the many IUIs) had really drained us financially. After about 4 months, I heard about the INCIID scholarship and decided to give it a shot. I don't know that I was totally ready to try again, but I also wasn't ready to totally give up just yet. By the time we were accepted for the scholarship, met our fundraising requirement, got matched, etc. a year had passed and we were in a much better place. I decided that sometimes it's about timing. We don't know why, but it is. We were much more relaxed folks as a result of our counseling sessions. We'd stopped our fight to force things to happen like we wanted then to and were ready to sit back and just let things happen they way they were meant to. We didn't realize it at the time, but our relationship had gotten a little tense from all the infertility stuff - plus we'd each recently lost a grandparent we were close to, had changed jobs, and had moved into a new house. That's a lot to have going on while you're doing an IVF cycle. For this cycle, we were settled and less stressed. And maybe we needed to experience those losses to truly appreciate this success. Anyways, it took awhile but this time we were truly ready to give it another shot - and you know the rest of the story.

Again, I say all this b/c I think that you should give yourself plenty of time to come to terms with things and to heal before you make any big decisions. Those little frozen embies will be waiting. Take time to do more testing, if you feel you should. Work through all that you're feeling and be at peace with it - on some level - before moving on. We hadn't come to peace with the failure of our first IVF cycle and I think it negatively impacted our second one. Be sure that you're in a good emotional place before you move on. You are blessed to have a daughter to love and to help you get through this tough time, and hopefully, you'll have another child in the future. I'm glad that you're going to make the drive back to your clinic. I think that getting that second opinion would be great! They've been the one to give you good news before, right? Maybe they will again - or at least give you some more answers.

I worry that I tend to be too long-winded and "preachy" - it's the teacher in me, I guess - and I apologize for that. I just really want you to know that you're not alone in what you're going through right now. We may have never met in person, but I've really valued our "chats" and have been as interested in your experience as I have been in my own. I truly hope that your trip to the clinic is fruitful and that you're somehow able to find the support that you need. Know that I'm here anytime you need to vent, or lament, or whatever you need to do as you work through everything. We can start a new thread, I don't care. Just take good care of yourself right now, please. And update us as you feel up to it. You're in my thoughts and prayers.

I go in tomorrow for my 9 week ultrasound - a very scary milestone for us. We'll see how it goes....

[natailia3]

OMG, Carlaliz, I cannot believe how we have been through such similar situations. And like you said, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
I took me a attempts to read your email, it was so painful but it does help me. And I thank you for sharing it with me.
My dog was truly my best friend and shadow. I literally could not take a shower, go to another room of the house, etc. without her there. I took her all over the world and make car choices based on her needs. Turned down jobs in Hawaii because I would not quarantine her. She was deaf and that made her want to be with me more. I had to walk to town last Wednesday after my car broke and she followed me and I never saw her. She never did that. She was lost for 2 days then Friday I put up fliers and within 2 hours we found her dead on the road. I just hate thinking of her lost looking for me, deaf, alone.
She was a mutt rescued from the streets of Georgia. Yes, she had a great life but she had lot of life left in her. She was my baby. I will always feel like she was like my first "child".
I am just numb right now. I know time will heal but today I feel myself slipping to a place that is so dark and gloomy and normally not my personality that it scares me. I cannot find any joy in anything. I feel like I cannot hold a normal conversation because I am processing so much loss and pain and sadness.
Its a difficult time and I am trying to stay strong. What is bad is late at night when my family is asleep and I am awake and I just let it all out and its the most lonely feeling.
I know making decisions now is not wise. I will take my time.
I go to my OBGYN that I don't like on Friday because I may choose a D&C for chromosomal testing. Then to my fertility clinic on Monday for ultrasound and hopefully get to speak with my Dr. there.
I am only anxious because I will be in the USA soon and feel if I need any tests while there I need to do it quick. But part of me if tired of testing.
It really does make me happy to see you and Mes1515 progressing successfully. It proves there is hope and its just good to hear some good news!
I will be thinking about you on your next US. I am sure things will keep looking fine for you.
Thanks again for being there. I think this is the last stop on my pregnancy emotional roller coaster. I feel I need the break.

[Veronica]

hooray!

wohoo! hooray!



I m so excited for you! It gives me hope!

Keep us informed on your progress.

[mes1115]

OMG natailia, i am truly sorry to hear about both of your losses. i can not imagine dealing with both of those tragedies at the same time. i know you are very upset/depressed right now but i know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you can't see it now b/c you are in the heart of it all, but you do have a daugther and husband that are there for you. and we are here too! i do wish you were closer...i would love to come over and just give you a hug and let you know that someday everything will be alright.

i am thinking about you and will keep you and your family in my prayers. i hope that you get some answers from your doctor and find out why these things are happening. i think with an answer or a reason it always helps to deal with it. it is the unknown or what ifs that make it that much harder.

please try to keep your head up and know that we are thinking about you!!

carlaliz - how was your ultrasound today? i actually go tomorrow for my 9 week ultrasound and if all looks good i am hopeful that my fertility doc will release me. i hope everything went well!

[natailia3]

I went to my OBGYN (whom I do not like but have no other option) on Friday to discuss alternatives to D&C. There are not options besides a pill (and vaginal insertion) of a medicine but you still have to spend the day admitted to the hospital. And if that fails you need the D&C.
I still have no signs of starting to miscarry. Wednesday I will be on a 9 hour flight to Atlanta and if I am miscarrying and hemorrhage I guess it would be deadly. I am nervous about that. I refuse to have a D&C. I have had 3 natural miscarraiges at home and at least know what to expect.
My OB also told me my causes of repeated miscarriages is (he feels) my endometrioma. Most specialists in IVF disagree. What he doesn't remember is that my endo cyst was disagnosed after my 3rd miscarriage. It was not there before.
I have decided to go another route than western medicine. 3 months of chinese herbs and acupunture before my FET.
And I will demand the asprin, heparin, prednisone protocol.
I just read that at 6 weeks gestation, the embryo requires a larger amout of blood flow. 2 of my miscarriages (my first and this current one) were almost identical...one 6 weeks, one 6 weeks 4 days. Fetal pole 2mm and other 4mm.
And my last ultrasound showed the fetus stopped growing/living right after my 2nd ultrasound. And there was a strong heartbeat at that time.
This seems to be a pretty big clue but everytime I hand my ultrasound reports to doctors, all they do is see it failed and shrug their shoulders.
It stinks! I am so tired of it.

Carlaliz, hope to hear from you soon. Hope your ultrasound went well.

mes1115, glad to hear you are doing well.

I will be on vacation but will check in sometime while gone. At least to read up on what is happening. Take care everyone!

[Carlaliz]

Natailia,

I'm so sorry that you had to see a doctor you don't really like and I hope that you don't end up having a miscarriage on your flight. That would be so miserable and scary! My body didn't naturally miscarry either and I had to have a D&E. It was definitely no fun and I feel for you. Are you staying in Atlanta or just flying in there? Is it you or is your whole family going? Regardless, I hope that you're able to relax and pamper yourself while you're here. You deserve it. Is there a doctor you can see in the states that could provide you with more answers and/or help? (Lots of questions, sorry.....) I did acupuncture and asprin for the first time this cycle and it appears to have helped. However, we also did assisted hatching this time. Have you considered that? It might be what you need. Our clinic said that sometimes the shell can be a little thick and the embryo spends so much energy "hatching out" that it runs out of steam and stops developing and growing. That was why they think we might have had two successful cycles end up failing. Anyways, it too has seemed to help and might be something to look into. Please continue to let me know how you're doing, as you're up to it. I'm thinking of you and hope that you enjoy your trip!

Hey ms1115! How was your ultrasound? Were you released from your clinic yet? I went in for mine on THurs. and all was well. I started feeling MUCH better last week - thank goodness! But of course, I also worried that maybe it was a bad sign and was glad I had the ultrasound coming up. Anyways, when I went in, he/she was doing a little dance, shaking it's head around. Everything looked good so they released me. I had mixed feelings about that - happy all is going that well but I'll miss their support. Anyways, my bff and goddaughter flew in from CA on Sat. and we've been running around having fun. Then, I suddenly had a good bit of cramping all day yesterday. I called my Ob/gyn just to make sure it wasn't a big deal and he told me to come on in. So, I got another ultrasound! I apologized for being so high maintenance, but he said it's a simple thing to do to ease my mind. He said that he understands my history and is happy to double check that all is well. Luckily, it was and the cramping is probably just my uterus stretching. We could see that I was exactly 10 weeks yesterday and in only about 5 days, it had grown and changed. It was moving it's little arms and legs around and I heard the heartbeat again. I was very relieved! So, that's where we are now. I go back on the 21st for another ultrasound and some testing for birth defects. When do you go back?

I'm thinking of both of you and will be anxiously awaiting updates! Take care!

[natailia3]

Thats great news Carlaliz. Looks like you are in the clear! Everything is going so well. What a great relief for you, I know.
My body doesn't want to give up what remains inside. Its getting very stressful with my 9 hour flight today. its a shame the couldn't give me a pill and send me home like the can do in the USA.
So far, no reply from my emails and faxes to my RE regarding miscarring again and plans for this FET have gone uwithout response. I feel like a number.
The acupunturist I found locally (1 hour away) cannot see me until August because she is on vacation all July. That no help...
So, trying not to feel sorry for myself but getting really frustrated!
Will keep checking in so keep the updates coming!

[Carlaliz]

Hey Natailia!

Just wondering how your flight went and how you're feeling. I've been worried about you. Any chance you could start acupuncture in the states and then continue it at home in Aug.? It sucks that you're not getting the response you want from her or from your RE. I totally understand your frustration and am feeling it on your behalf! Please let me know when you hear something back. I'm curious to know what your RE says. Please hang in there and try to enjoy your time here! I'm thinking of you - as always!

Hey ms1115!

Just wondering how things are going. When you can, please give us an update!

[natailia3]

Hey Carlaliz. I am fine. Made it here yesterday without problems.
I started having very sharp pains Wednesday night (and fever maybe because of cold coming on). But nothing terrible happened on the plane. Still waiting for my body to do what it needs to.
I send off some blood for "same day" hemogram to make sure I wasn't having any infection or anything. they told me today my blood clotted so they cannot do the test. they are also doing a beta for me so I can see how my levels are dropping. it would be good to know they were low but so far, they have not sent any results. (this blood was shipped overnight Monday and was supposed to get results Wednesday. Today if Friday and they said latter today.
My RE finally replied to my email. He said to call him. No reply to any questions.
I guess I will wait until I get back and make a consult with him.
BUT, I am here and have decided there are 2 tests I need to get while here.
1. NK assay (do not do in Brazil) 2. APA (in brazil they only test for 1 APA, millenova checks for 20)
I am hoping there is a answer in these tests for me.
I strongly feel my problem is immune.
I have endo, 2 antithyroid antibodies, i have had ulcerative colitis (autoimmune condition) and have a type of immune response rash that comes and goes on arms and feet. My gut says this is the issue.
I did find ONE clinic in Brazil that uses IVIG, if I have to switch REs and take my frozen embryos somewhere, I will.
Just going to wait to see what these test say.

As for acupunture, I have decided to travel 3 hours to the city where i had my IVF. Its far but at least people there are somewhat professional and dependable.

I am in New Orleans now. A great city full of energy so I am going to soak it up and enjoy myself and try to heal my mind. I went out for a 6am jog and it really helped relieve stress. I couldn't do this at home because i used to jog with my 14 year old dog and i just cannot bring myself to go without her.


Thats all for me. Glad you are good. when do you get another ultrasound?
Are you having other tests? Sounded like you may do the CVS? Are you?
I was considering that.
Take care.

[mes1115]

Hi ladies,

Hope you are both doing well and feeling pretty good. Natailia any word from your re? good luck with the tests here, i hope you get the answers you need!

I am now a little over 10 weeks and have been feeling a little better. I had my first ob/gyn appt and it went well. It is really alot of information, with a lot of decisions to make, what tests to have and what not. Things looked good at the appt and there were no concerns, which made me feel pretty good. The are going to re-run my blood again b/c my white blood cells are elevated and so are my platlets. My fertility doc thought it was due to hyperstimulation, but he doesnt know for sure. i go back next week for blood again to see if they went down.

other than that things are going pretty well...it is starting to sink in that i am having twins and that we need to get ready for them...it is so much to think about! and so much stuff to get. i just hope that i continue to feel good!

thinking of you ladies and hope you are both doing well!

[natailia3]

I might have stumbled onto the answer to my problems after all!
I have low cd 4 (t cells). I tested about 4 days before my second ultrasound when I still had a heartbeat and they were very low.
Reading Dr. Beers website today I see he not only tests for this but gives great information about this. The treatment is LIT (leukocyte immunization therapy) which I should be able to get in Brazil (finally, something good about NOT being in USA) BUT...as always, its a matter of what my RE will say. Most REs here in USA may not agree to treat this in the same way or at all.
So, my job will be to find out if my RE will treat with LIT or not and/or find a new RE. Now I am considering not taking the other tests.....or should I???
Any suggestions??? I am so confused and am basically tired of testing. Maybe this is all I need.
Still waiting for my beta to see how low my numbers are so I can see how soon this miscarriage will take to commence. So far, so sign of it starting. Would be 11 weeks 4 days along today. And my body still thinks its pregnant. Very upsetting.
Hope you are all well!

[natailia3]

anyone know how a beta can rise after miscarriage?
My beta on May 24 was 18800, 8 days later I had the ultrasound that showed a heartbeat. June 1, was the ultrasound that showed no heartbeat.
June 7 I had beta (that I got today) and its 22921.
How can it grow? I thought betas were the first to quickly drop after the embryo dies.
I have had no signs of bleeding or cramping. I would be 11 week 5 days.
According to my last ultrasound, my embryo died 8weeks 3 days.
Just when I think this pregnancy cannot get more stressful and emotional, here we go again! Should I stop drinking wine?

[leslieJ]

Suggestion

My suggestion would be to get an ultrasound in the us while you are here. Seems like you get a lot of mis information in brazil.

Maybe you are still pregnant and they just could not read the heartbeat. Let us know...

Leslie

[Carlaliz]

Hey Natailia,

I would DEFINITELY get another ultrasound ASAP! That's what happened the time we made it to 9 weeks. I had a full-blown period and we thought it was over, but my hormone levels rose instead of dropped and that's when we found out we were pregnant afterall and that I had probably just lost one of twins. It's crazy that this is still happening and I hope that, somehow, you end up getting some good news. It sounds like you might have some answers from Dr. Beers too and that's great! Having good info. always helps, doesn't it? I'd do what you feel you need to do as far as the other testing is concerned. Part of me says, get it all over with for once and for all but I also haven't been through all the testing that you have. I'm sure it's very old! Regardless, please continue to update us on how things are going. You're definitely having quite an adventure, to say the very least! I wish you tons of luck and can't wait to hear what's going on. Hang in there!

Hey ms1115,

Glad that things are looking good. What could it mean for you and the pregnancy if your white blood cell and platelet count don't drop? What can they do to help them drop? I hope that it's all where it should be soon!

It is a lot to think about and I still think that I'm in shock that we're gonna have a baby. I'm sure it's even crazier to think that you'll have twins! I go in on Mon., which should be 12 weeks, for the first of the testing for birth defects. (It also happens to be the day of our 7th anniversary.) I hope and pray that all continues to go well! I guess I just need to accept that I'll be nervous before every appt. I'm glad that you're feeling better. I started to feel better last week mself - which was perfect timing since my bff and goddaughter were in town. Now, I'm just exhausted a lot!Please let us know how things go at your next appt. I'm thinking of you!